The Muppets are Wrestling

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Bugs, what's going on? [00:00:03] Speaker B: All right, all right. So, Ella, I've been thinking a lot about proper nouns, pronouns, nouns in general words and what they evoke. And I know that I'm usually taken point when I show you one of my funny magic cards. However, I'm gonna like. I really like a little audience participation here. And, Ella, if you could go ahead and read me the name of this card. [00:00:26] Speaker A: Okay. Let's see here. Oh, Jesus. All right. Well, I'm gonna try. Look at you, what you do to a girl. Boringus and fib. [00:00:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's pretty good, actually. All right. All right. And riddle me this, Batanga. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Okay. [00:00:48] Speaker B: Riddle me this, Batman. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Oh, all right. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Okay. [00:00:53] Speaker A: I'm stretching. I'm shadow boxing meekly in my office as Miranda Moran. As Miranda Nomar Dickadais. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Tenacular car as Miranda Mardicadison Akulakar. Yeah, he got there. [00:01:16] Speaker C: Jesus. [00:01:20] Speaker B: So I. I gather here today to show you these three fine little guys. I don't know if you saw in Borboregos. And Fibblethip in his art, where Fibblethip is little tiny guy. [00:01:34] Speaker A: I love him. [00:01:36] Speaker B: I. We. We adore. Hold on, hold on. Let me. Before I get into my thesis proper, I got. I got. I got one more little fiddle flip for you. A little Bibbletip for you. [00:01:50] Speaker A: He's Mike Wazowski. [00:01:52] Speaker B: Yeah. So this would be Fibblethip, Lost on the Range. He's wearing a cowboy hat. And I have gathered you here today to, among other things, think about how names and vibes evoke Persona and how we are able to cultivate and, like, shorthand what someone's whole deal is just by hearing who the hell they are and getting a quick little glance in the world of pop culture, especially wrestling, and especially in a couple other things. [00:02:20] Speaker A: Oh, oh, oh. You're leaning towards a topic. Well, I was gonna say something Fibulfit, being kind of a puppeteer. Hit the button. But Bugs does magic for the stories. Welcome back to Everything Is Wrestling. God, that was a long one. [00:02:57] Speaker C: Well, [00:02:59] Speaker A: it is. I, Ella Taylor. What with the. She's in the hers. And I am here again to talk about all the ways in which knowing professional wrestling means knowing the world around you a little bit better. And with me, as always, say, hi, Bugs. [00:03:16] Speaker B: Bugs. [00:03:17] Speaker A: Oh, just Bugs. Okay. There we go. Go. Since we're, you know, like, moving the letters around, y' all missed it. There was a lot of magic, the Gathering goofy going on. But Bugugs is here. Hi, Bugugs. We love you, Bugugs. And we are here to talk about something that we are. I'm just so freaking excited. Like, I'm barely containing myself. We got the second half of Here Comes Tomorrow on the pod. It is Becca Petunia to talk about Muppets. Hi, Becca. [00:03:51] Speaker C: Hi, Ella. Hi, Bugs. [00:03:53] Speaker B: Hello, [00:03:56] Speaker A: Muppets. Muppets, Muppets. We're a professional show. [00:04:03] Speaker C: Yeah, No, I wouldn't expect anything less. So thank you. Yeah, most people know that when I show up, the Muppets are not far behind. You know, it's funny because I was telling this story, I met a local trans girl and she was following me on social media after we met, and then she. She messaged me and she was like, so let me get this straight. You work for Sesame Street? And I was like, no, no, no, you don't understand. It's much weirder than that. It's much weirder than that. [00:04:42] Speaker A: Who do you work for? Tell the people. [00:04:45] Speaker C: Well, I mean, I'm not going to talk about what. I'm not going to dox myself, Ella. [00:04:49] Speaker A: Well, you know what I mean, what with the pigs that are tough. [00:04:53] Speaker C: I do, yeah. So my name is Becca Pat. [00:04:57] Speaker B: She. [00:04:57] Speaker C: Her. And folks know me as Ella mentioned from the podcast that I do with our friend Josephine Reisman, that being Here Comes Tomorrow, an X Men podcast about the X Men and queerness and Grant Morrison, the queer X Men writer. [00:05:19] Speaker A: Yes. One of the queerest things to ever exist, really, when you think about it [00:05:24] Speaker B: just from a certain point of view. [00:05:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:28] Speaker C: And. But. But folks also know me from the website tough pigs.com, a Muppet website. A Muppet fan website that has just turned, believe it or not, this month, 25 years old. So Tough Pigs. I know, I know. So Tough Pigs has existed for 25 years. I have not been there for all 25 of those years. But with Tough Pigs, I'm usually writing about LGBTQ issues as well and how they intersect with the Muppets. And you can find me on my Muppet related podcasts, most notably A Prairie Dawn Companion, which is my. [00:06:12] Speaker B: That's so good. [00:06:13] Speaker C: It is my deep dive into the history of Sesame street and how it intersects with 1970s feminism. It's basically like my doctoral thesis in podcast form, except my doctoral thesis also includes trans women singing songs about rodeo. Rosie the short lived cowgirl Muppet. Check it out. But I talked a lot about myself. But, Ella, you are the. The editor of Here Comes Tomorrow. [00:06:48] Speaker A: I am guilty as charged. Yeah. [00:06:49] Speaker C: So I'm always trying to get on your other podcasts because I know you and you Know, when I realized we were talking a little on Blue sky about the Muppets and wrestling. And, you know, it's interesting because I feel like. And you're going to have to excuse me for, like, getting into, like, my doctoral thesis voice already. [00:07:12] Speaker A: This is why we. We bring in the expert transes. It's what we do. [00:07:16] Speaker B: Please. [00:07:16] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So what's interesting here is that I feel like there's two directions we could take this conversation, because there are times where the Muppets have. I guess there's three ways we can take this in that conversation. [00:07:32] Speaker B: Full of holes. [00:07:34] Speaker C: Yes, they truly. [00:07:36] Speaker B: They truly are quite a permeable memory. [00:07:39] Speaker C: Yeah, they truly are. But so. So one direction we can take. This is the literal ways that the Muppets have crossed over with wrestling, which [00:07:49] Speaker A: are amazing in their own Right. [00:07:50] Speaker C: Well, and that crosses into that. That branches into two directions. That's what I mean about this kind of being a three directional thing, because you have plot related ways that the Muppets branched into wrestling. And Ella, I was talking to you a little on Blue sky about, like, the Zero Mostel episode where Kermit has to dress in drag to do women's wrestling. [00:08:14] Speaker B: Lady wrestling, which is totally not related to. Repertinent to anything going on in women's sports at the moment. [00:08:22] Speaker A: Oh, well. [00:08:23] Speaker C: Well, put a pin in. Put a pin in that, Bugs. There's also. There's also the ways the Muppets have crossed over, literally, with wrestling. You know, for example, I do always want to make clear that canonically, Hornswoggle is Beaker's cousin. [00:08:43] Speaker A: Really? [00:08:44] Speaker C: I didn't know that this canonically happened on. On an episode of Raw. So just be aware that you need to. You need to remember that. But the other thing that I think. And you know, I'm. I'm good friends with. With Josie, and we all know that Josie is the master of. Of understanding kayfabe. And I think what is so fascinating about the Muppets is that the Muppets. The Muppets are the original Kayfabe in so many ways. Right. [00:09:21] Speaker A: See, you're going. Becca, you're going exactly where I wanted you to go. [00:09:26] Speaker C: Because. So let's start here because this is what Ella seems really excited about, because here's the thing about the Muppets is the Muppets are so unique among. Well, okay, you can't be gradations of unique. The Muppets are unique amongst. Among. There's my. There's my English degree coming out. [00:09:48] Speaker B: Oh, no. Big mood. [00:09:51] Speaker C: The Muppets The Muppets are unique among pop culture figures because they are simultaneously real and fake. Right? Like, we all, we all logically know that the Muppets are puppets, right? We all logically know that the Muppets are puppets. However, however, we also, we also know that, like, Kermit appears on talk shows and the hosts ask him questions about, like, his relationship with Miss Piggy. [00:10:27] Speaker B: And everyone takes this as 100% face value. [00:10:31] Speaker A: Like, yeah, like I mentioned, I, like, this is how I brought it up to Bugs earlier. I was like, well, let's put it this way. If you walk into a room and there's a puppeteer performing Kermit the Frog. You have walked into a room with Kermit the Frog. Like, like that brother's real. Like, he's there. And if you, and if you don't respond that way, you're the weird one. That's the thing that's so cool about it. [00:10:57] Speaker C: It's so interesting because again, in, in my, in my life, I've been, I've been blessed with the opportunity to, to meet people, the Muppets, on various occasions. [00:11:08] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:11:12] Speaker C: What's it like? Well, so that's what I wanted. That's what I want to say. So, like, yeah, I've seen, I've seen wrestling shows. I've also, again, been to Sesame street multiple times. And, and the thing is, like, when you are, you know how when you're watching wrestling, right? And you guys, you guys are wrestling guys. [00:11:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:38] Speaker C: Know how when you're watching neutral. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I met guys. You know, you're good. [00:11:45] Speaker A: No, I, there's lit. I'm literally part of, like, a loose conglomeration of wrestling podcasts that call ourselves the, the wrestling girlies gender neutral because there's multiple non binary people in there. So, like, yeah, we get it [00:11:59] Speaker C: when you go to a, when you go to a wrestling show, like, we're all, we're all smart adults. We know that they are not. Surely, you know, the plots aren't real. They're not actually, you know, angry at each other or mutilating each other or all of these things, right? But when you're at the wrestling show, you believe it the entire time, right? You're sitting there, you're sitting there and you get into it, and it becomes so easy to suspend your disbelief and believe in heels and, and, and faces and all of these different things. And, you know, and then it ends, and the wrestlers are just normal people [00:12:42] Speaker B: again, and then they go back to being co workers. [00:12:45] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Going to, you know, going to Sesame Street. And the Sesame street characters are Muppets. I need to make this clear. The Muppet Show, Sesame street, they're owned by different people now, but they're all Muppets. Going to Sesame Street. Going to Sesame Street. I'm, you know, I'm a 35 year old woman. I know that puppets aren't real guys. I'm also, like, I'm not a 2 year old. But when you are there on set, you absolutely, fully believe in the realness of the characters you're seeing. Immersive, you know. So in recent years, in recent years, they gave Elmo a pet dog. The pet dog's name is Tango. And I'm gonna say this as nicely as I can. [00:13:39] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:13:39] Speaker C: I think. I think this pet dog is annoying. I don't really like looking at it. I don't prefer this dog's existence. [00:13:51] Speaker A: Tell him how you really feel. [00:13:53] Speaker C: I'm on set and the puppeteer brings Tango over to me. [00:13:58] Speaker A: That's a doggo. [00:14:00] Speaker B: Oh, that's. You're scratching this guy. [00:14:03] Speaker C: I sure was. Starts barking at me, starts rubbing against me. I'm scratching Tango behind the ears. I'm. I'm. I'm scratching Tango under the chin. And let me tell you something. For those, you know, minute, minute tops, I was like, I would die for Tango. [00:14:25] Speaker A: Yeah, because it's a doggo. [00:14:28] Speaker B: Because it's just a little guy. [00:14:30] Speaker C: I would die for Tango. And then Tango, you know, Tango goes away. And now I'm able to think critically about media again and be like, it's not really much of a character. And it feels like it was intended for merchandise more than it was intended for actual. But then when Tango is there, I'm like, there's a dog here. And I love dogs. [00:14:53] Speaker B: I really thought that you were gonna say that Tango's a real dog. And I was gonna be like, like, like, like, like, like they have like a. A non Muppet dog as Elmo's pet. And I was gonna be like, that's insane. That's fucking insane. That breaks thefabe. [00:15:07] Speaker C: Yeah, that breaks thefabe in. In its own way. No, Tango is a puppet. [00:15:12] Speaker B: Oh, thank God. [00:15:13] Speaker C: But. But it is just this. It's this wild thing. And again, it's. It's so interesting because, you know, Jim Henson and his team realized pretty early on that that was part of the strength of the Muppets. And I actually should specify that that was more of Jim Henson's team thing than a Jim Henson himself thing, because Jim was Not always very comfortable with ad libbing. And Jim was also not always. He sometimes was, but you can see if you watch old talk show appearances, he does not seem like he's. He's really ready to. Yes, and. But the one who always was was Frank Oz and Frank Oz. Frank Oz would have these elaborate backstories written in his mind for all of his characters that were never filmed or written down beyond just in transcriptions of interviews people did with Frank Oz. So, like, Frank Oz knows Miss Piggy's backstory, Frank Oz knows that Miss Piggy, you know, Miss Piggy grew up on a farm and was. Was, you know, had like, multiple siblings and was always pushing them out of the way for attention. Frank Oz knows that Miss Piggy is. Is. Is secretly a trucker and all of these different things. And having that knowledge of this character that doesn't exist in the text explicitly is what lets there be this elaborate kayfabe. Right? It's what. It's what lets Miss Piggy simultaneously feel both fake and real. [00:17:01] Speaker A: And, well, it makes her. It makes her feel like a well rounded, full, actual person. Like she's. Like she's lived a whole life, the [00:17:09] Speaker B: history of herself to whatever space she's in. [00:17:13] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:17:14] Speaker C: And it is worth noting, right before Jim Henson died in 1990, the Muppet team was working on a project that they called pig of the 90s. And the idea of pig of the 90s was that, you can look this up on my beloved Muppet Wiki. The idea of pig of the 90s was that Ms. Piggy was going to decide that she was a liberated woman who did not need Kermit. And this was going to play out. The plan was that this was going to play out both in scripted specials, but also in things like talk show interviews. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Holy shit. [00:17:58] Speaker C: Press appearances, newsletters, all of these different things. In other words, they were thinking about promos, guys. They were thinking about. They were. They were going to cut promos. [00:18:14] Speaker B: And that's like the mother of all Muppet promos. Like, you can't have Ms. Vicki leave Kermit. That's crazy. [00:18:19] Speaker A: Well, that's wild. [00:18:22] Speaker C: So this didn't happen because Jim Henson died and the focus had to shift, you know, away from this. It would be weird to be like, and then Miss Piggy is divorcing Kermit when people, like, associate Kermit with Jim. [00:18:36] Speaker A: Grief does wild things to couples, though, you know, But. [00:18:40] Speaker C: But if you guys. If you guys. If you guys remember and, you know, listen, 2015 was a wild time for all of us. And by that, I mean I was sadly and dysphorically eating Thai food in an apartment about the size of a broom closet. [00:18:58] Speaker A: But in 2015, that's like it all. [00:19:02] Speaker C: No, no, no, no, no, no. 2015. 2015, Becca. Very, very different, very different woman who didn't realize she was a woman. But there was the Muppet. The Muppet, like the Muppet talking head style sitcom that was on ABC for like 12 episodes before it got canceled. And. And what was. What was the way that they promoed this TV series? In the first episode, Piggy breaks up with Kermit. And they carried that over to press interviews, online, Facebook, Facebook reels. [00:19:49] Speaker A: Do you remember this, Bugs? I remember this. I was. [00:19:53] Speaker B: I was. I did cable at this time. I was in college and not paying attention to anything other double majoring. [00:20:00] Speaker A: Hell yeah. That is totally fair. But no, I remember this, Becca. [00:20:04] Speaker C: It was. [00:20:05] Speaker B: Remember this at all. But this is sick. [00:20:07] Speaker C: So this happened. And again, they literally would have, like, Miss Piggy would go on talk shows and be like, kermit and I are just not working out. And. And people. I want to be clear. People got mad. Yeah. At Kermit's new girlfriend. On the show. There was a second pig named Denise, named Denise. [00:20:42] Speaker A: Younger, pretty pig. [00:20:43] Speaker C: You know, a quote, like, younger, prettier pig. We're talking about pig puppets here, Ella. [00:20:50] Speaker A: I know, I know, but you know what? I. It's like the first Wives club with pigs. You know, it's like. Or yeah, you know, oh, my God, this is. [00:21:01] Speaker C: And people. People were legitimately getting angry. People were legitimately. They had to write. They wrote Denise off the show in part because fans were really mad at this idea that. That Kermit, who's a made up character, could be dating another woman. [00:21:27] Speaker A: They were mad at him for being a man, for being just a human. [00:21:31] Speaker B: They literally got mad at Kermit. Kermit for having a midlife crisis. This is fucking insane. Yeah, Insane. And just like, like, because we've talked a few times on this show about the transitive property of, like, one, like the character that they play being applied to the actor in real life. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, like, last example was Roddy Piper wears a leather coat, a leather jacket all the time because of how many times people have tried to stab him because he's a bastard. You know what I mean? [00:22:03] Speaker B: And so having that being functionally applied to a pig, is that like, that. That is like the human ability to anthromorph and suspend disbelief. And I, in, like, this, the Human, like, desire for narrative closure and like, meeting making is so on display here. What the fuck? [00:22:29] Speaker C: Yeah, it's, it's, it's wild. It's wild. And again, I, you know, I was, I was there and I do want to stress that my, my friends and I were not the ones who were getting mad at a fictional character, but I do know some Muppet fans who were. [00:22:50] Speaker A: Wow. [00:22:51] Speaker B: And spill the felt. Still felt. Who was up there. [00:22:58] Speaker C: I think it's, I think it's a little bit of punching down bugs, but like, but like, this is what I understand about wrestling. And, and I've been, I've been a, I've been a Muppets girl my, my whole life. I, I, I grew up with it and it very quickly became, as you can tell, something of a special interest. But like, wrestling is a newer world to me. But, like, I understand the vibe because of things like this, you know, because of, because of Piggy appearing on interviews and saying, you know, that like, and talking about, you know, exes and talking about, like, you know, how much, how much what she and Kermit are going to do next and all of these things, and it's like, she's foam. I, I've, I. [00:23:52] Speaker A: Oh, that's like when, when, when Goldust went on Conan o' Brien and like, full character with Marlena with his belt and like, gave. [00:24:01] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:24:01] Speaker A: Higher interview. [00:24:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Wait, that, that was amazing. And, and Dustin Rhodes, he's just foam. I mean, so, like, yeah, yeah, I'm giving him now because he recently revealed himself to be a piece of. And I spent like, many years saying he's one of the good ones. [00:24:23] Speaker B: Tell me off, Pod. That's unfortunate. [00:24:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's unfortunate. Not that there's anything wrong with being [00:24:28] Speaker B: foam, you know, I love myself my felt O Americans. [00:24:34] Speaker C: And I, I, I do, I do just want to apologize to Tango. I, I did come down a little hard on Tango. As long as we're, we're apologizing to people made of foam. [00:24:47] Speaker A: But no, that's, you're, you're dead on. You're absolutely dead on because, like, and there's, and that's just one of the ways. But like, I think of the fact, like, I'm still, I still like, just randomly will like, like, go off on some be like, oh, my God, Eddie. Anytime someone brings up Eddie Kingston, I'm just like, you know, he touched my hand. Eddie Kingston, the totally real guy who's is totally actually exactly what he is on tv. Touched my head. And it's just like, Also, I know that he, like, walked behind me just, like, being chill on the street while I was in the group chat, freaking out that I was going to see Eddie Kingston perform. And I look up my friends. Like, he literally walked right by. [00:25:33] Speaker C: And this is. And this is. This is another thing, too, which is part of. Part of the life of a puppeteer. You know, Frank Oz is sort of renowned in. In. I mean, he's renowned in many communities for many things. Like Yoda. [00:25:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, that man is Yoda. [00:25:52] Speaker C: And also directing. And also directing the remake of the Stepford Wives that only my spouse and I, like, I saw in the theaters, [00:26:02] Speaker A: and I thought, it's that lore. [00:26:05] Speaker B: How did I miss that? He directed that. [00:26:08] Speaker C: Bugs. Bugs. The world is so much bigger than you realize. And isn't that beautiful? [00:26:14] Speaker B: Isn't that so excited. That's why I come on podcasts. That's why I have podcasts to get to learn. [00:26:23] Speaker A: Frank Oz did wild stuff. [00:26:25] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I'm aware, but I didn't know that part. That's the hell. [00:26:29] Speaker C: So Frank Oz has repeated what he's renowned like. What a lot of us, like hardcore Muppet fans, will joke about is that he has a tendency to say in all of the interviews that he does that he loves. You know, he loves his life because he can perform some of the most famous characters of all time, but he can also, he always phrases it this way, go to the grocery store and buy a can of beans. It is always phrased as going to the grocery store and buying a can of beans. [00:27:04] Speaker B: Frank just needs his beans. [00:27:06] Speaker A: Frank knows the importance of fiber. [00:27:08] Speaker C: Frank. Frank and beans, it goes together perfectly, you know, and this is, in some ways, also the life of wrestlers. [00:27:17] Speaker A: I was good. Well, I was gonna say that that's lucha. That's. You know what I mean? Like, luchadors that work under masks, they. You do not see them without their mask. And, like, part of that has got. Part of the greatness of that has to be that they can just go to the store and get looking at their bodies. Like, so much beans. Like, a lot of beans those guys are eating. [00:27:43] Speaker C: They're definitely eating more beans than Frank Oz, a, you know, a skinny, bald man in his late 70s, [00:27:54] Speaker A: but absolutely. And that's part of it, too. But then you get like, you know, you. God, I loved about the. That story of the. The breakup angle that they played. I'm calling it a angle. It's wrestling. [00:28:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:11] Speaker A: The break. The angle, the breakup angle. They worked. Is that. That is absolutely Neo kfab. Is it's blending this thing and it. It's like. I don't know, it's. It's making it and. But they've always kind of done that because, like, I, you know, I re watched that zero Mostel episode in preparation for this, and God, I just love that show. And one of the things that it. That that caught me was like, oh, they are putting, like, you could. You could and should do the Muppet show about, like an indie wrestling promotion. You know, it's a small theater group putting on a production of a show and all, and you get all the crazy background shit. [00:28:58] Speaker C: I want that so bad. [00:29:01] Speaker A: They did it as a melodrama with Stephen Amel and it was like, okay, but it wasn't great and it got canceled. [00:29:08] Speaker B: But Muppets. [00:29:09] Speaker A: Really quick. But Muppets. Oh, God, do it with Muppets. That would be even better. But, like, that's like, I'm watching. I'm like, oh, my God. No, this is the same thing, is because if you're looking at it, if you play with the kayfabe and you're going, okay, well, these are real people putting on a theater show, a. A variety show. And like, that's what wrestling is, too. It is you. It's a bunch of your friends. The weirdest. A lot of times the outsiders with very little budget. No one's getting paid enough. The, you know, one of the guys, cranky old, old uncles, owns the building and lets you use it, you know, and like. But you're putting on a show and people are getting way into it and, and people come back every week, even if they hate it, to boo and heckle you. You know what I mean? Like, that's wrestling. It's just literally wrestling. Like John Maddening, the local. The local announcer for our local promotion. Like, you. You have to yell at him. I love him. He's a great guy. Like, I've hung out with him in real life. He's a nice dude, but, like, when he's on that stage, like, I'm going to give you. Because it's. It's proper and right to do. Like, you play. You're playing into it the same way that you scratched Scratch Tango's ears. [00:30:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:31] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Yeah. You're. You're. You, You. That's what I mean. Like, you're gonna be weird if you don't. If you don't. You're the weird one. [00:30:38] Speaker C: You're the weird one. [00:30:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, that's my rant on that. I was like, it's there's so many ways. There's so many ways. It's almost a low. It was almost a softball to be like, Muppets is wrestling. [00:30:49] Speaker C: Yeah, it really. It really. It really is. And as long as, you know, as long as we're talking about the Zero Mostel episode of the Muppet show, let's. Let's walk back one of those. One on one of those other roads. Right? Let's. Let's walk. Let's walk to the times. You know, Muppets have had plots related to wrestling, which, again, is mostly. This is the most notable one that I could think of. You know, I asked some of my friends at Tough Pigs, and I was like, what are some other ones? And there is an episode where Gonzo wrestles a brick. He. He. He loses. And I do need to clarify because I'm on a podcast with. With three trans people now. [00:31:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:36] Speaker C: When I. When I say that Gonzo wrestles a brick, I was going to say, how'd my sister do? [00:31:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to ask. [00:31:43] Speaker C: I do mean. I do mean a piece of concrete. Okay. [00:31:48] Speaker B: Okay. She's busted, but she's it. [00:31:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Come on. We got still. Be nice to her. Oh, I love doing this show. [00:31:58] Speaker C: Oh, no, we. We all. We all were headed in the same direction when I said Johnson. Yes. [00:32:05] Speaker B: We. We collectively have one brain cell, one bank account, and one joke. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:10] Speaker B: And one joke. [00:32:13] Speaker C: So what? I. You know. But. But this. This episode has. Has the most of it because there is this idea that Scooter's uncle, J.P. gross will only help Kermit pay payroll if he puts lady wrestling on the show. And. And it does feel like lady wrestling is 50% of the time a euphemism for something, but also 50% of the time, literally, lady wrestling. [00:32:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:46] Speaker C: And Miss Piggy refuses to wrestle. So as I mentioned earlier, Kermit has to wrestle as the mysterious Miss Mask. And, you know, Ella, you watched this episode. How do you feel about Granny the Gouger and the mysterious Miss Mask? As wrestlers, would you. Would you follow their careers? [00:33:06] Speaker A: Well, I mean, as wrestlers, I would be a huge fan of Granny the Gouger, Miss Mask. I would. I want to pull for. [00:33:16] Speaker B: But I'd be curious to see Ms. Masks, like, rebranding. [00:33:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, the superhero wrestlers very rarely work the way you want it to work. [00:33:29] Speaker C: I can imagine that often being a letdown. And again, I'm new to the world. I'm new to this world, but, like, it feels like a tough gimmick because people have so much Expectations of. Of superheroes, you know, and. And while it feels like it could be useful to tap into the kind of cultural capital of a superhero, there's some aspects of the cultural capital of a superhero that you can't tap into correctly. [00:34:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. As far as. And as far as the match itself, I mean, two stars. Yeah. Great. [00:34:08] Speaker B: It was. It was fine. [00:34:09] Speaker A: It was a. Well, it was a squash with like a weird, unnecessary run in at the end. Like, maybe they're gonna continue this story with this pig. I don't know. The pig's got a hell of a spinning back fist, though. I tell you what. Like, wow. But no. Granny the gouger really messed up that twink in a wig. Which reminds me, I. I'm just saying it out loud because we are what we are. [00:34:35] Speaker C: We had a pin. We had. We had a pin in twinks. I don't remember. [00:34:39] Speaker A: We had a pin in tw cases. [00:34:41] Speaker B: Many cases. [00:34:45] Speaker C: So I just. [00:34:46] Speaker A: Because of who I am as a person, I have to throw it out there. Kermit the Frog. Twink. [00:34:52] Speaker B: Oh. [00:34:52] Speaker C: Oh, Bugs. Bugs, you want to take this? [00:34:54] Speaker B: Oh, I. I feel like the gut impulses to say yes, but I don't. I can't. I don't know if we can call every wavish guy a twink. [00:35:03] Speaker A: I think he has. It's not the way fishness. I think he has twink energy. [00:35:08] Speaker B: I don't. Okay, no, because he does not know where the nose drugs are. [00:35:15] Speaker A: Okay, fair, fair, fair, fair, fair. [00:35:17] Speaker B: Kermit the frog does not know where the ketamine is. [00:35:20] Speaker C: Is Kermit the frog a twink? 25,000 page long forum post left by a moderator. [00:35:30] Speaker B: That being said, I am open to discuss Gonzo on this matter. [00:35:34] Speaker C: Okay. [00:35:34] Speaker A: Oh, well, Gonzo is he. [00:35:38] Speaker C: I. I do want to remind you, he lost at wrestling to a brick. So. [00:35:43] Speaker A: So yeah, that twink. [00:35:45] Speaker B: Twinks versus Dolls. [00:35:46] Speaker C: Yeah, I was gonna say. And I was going to say, you know, I think. I think we've all. We've all had experiences like that. So I'd say, sure, I accept that Gonzo could be a twink. You know, I did. I did also put a pin in when. When. When Bugs was talking about how Kermit is pulling the stunt that these terrible bad faith WNBA haters are pulling where. Where it's like it. But here's what I think a lot of people don't know about Kermit. Kermit was a drag performer before he was a variety show host. [00:36:30] Speaker A: I did not know on. [00:36:33] Speaker C: Here's what a lot of people don't know. Yes, yeah, exactly. I know, I know, I know. I mean, I could tell you things people do know about the Muppets. Kermit's green, but so Jim Henson's. Jim Henson's first TV show. You know, last year was the 70th anniversary of the Muppets, and the Muppets show started in the 70s and Sesame street started in 1969. So you might be like, how is it the 70th year of the Muppets? Well, the first show to call Jim Henson's creations the Muppets was a show called Sam and Friends that was a local. A local access. A. Like a local public access TV show in the Washington, D.C. metro area, which is where Henson is from. And it was five minute sketches of these weird looking characters, none of which continued very far past Sam and Friends, other than Kermit, who was one of the main characters, but not the main character because his name's not Sam. And the thing about Kermit is, you know, on this show, every character had to be a utility character. They had to use them for a variety of things. Those things were usually lip syncing to old records. [00:38:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Paired up. [00:38:06] Speaker C: But at least in, like the original group of the Sam and Friends characters, there really weren't that many female characters. So sometimes they would put Kermit in a blonde wig. [00:38:23] Speaker B: No. [00:38:25] Speaker C: And refer. And refer to her as Carmina. [00:38:30] Speaker B: No fucking way. [00:38:32] Speaker C: You can still find some Carmina related sketches online where Carmina in a blonde wig is lip syncing to. To old female vocalist records. And, and so, yeah, now I know, I know drag and transness are not the same because I'm a trans woman, so I understand these things. But we also know there can be a lot of crossover in a lot of other ways. [00:39:06] Speaker A: Well, one of the things I thought of is, is he the one of the type of frogs, like in Jurassic park that can transit gender? Life finds a way because frogs do that. [00:39:17] Speaker C: Life does find a way. [00:39:19] Speaker B: Wait, is that why Piggy's with him? Because she's bi as hell? [00:39:22] Speaker A: Oh, Piggy's the most bisexual I've ever seen in my entire life. [00:39:26] Speaker C: I mean, I mean, there is, there is the, The. The. The T4 T kermit piggy arguments. [00:39:35] Speaker B: I will also hear Piggy chaser. Yeah. [00:39:40] Speaker C: Are you implying Piggy is a T boy chaser? [00:39:43] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:44] Speaker C: Okay, so that felt. [00:39:46] Speaker A: I'm ready for this. This is amazing. [00:39:48] Speaker C: Holy. But Piggy is a drag character through and through. I don't think it's that hard to posit that Kermit and Piggy are in a tea for t relationship. Yes. [00:40:05] Speaker B: Yes. No matter how you slice that, there is no heterosexual explanation for this shit. [00:40:11] Speaker A: And I love this show. [00:40:13] Speaker C: And again, this is why. This is why I need to stress that, you know, again, something's going on with Kermit that's more complicated than. Than his gender would imply at first blush. Yeah, I am willing to believe that. I am willing to. I am willing to believe that this is. This is not a WNBA situation. [00:40:44] Speaker A: We're saying that the estrogen might have saved her. She wouldn't have had that. That. That really messy public midlife crisis that everyone got mad at her for. Although. [00:40:54] Speaker C: Although. Let's be. Let's be real. Let's be real. [00:40:58] Speaker A: Trans women do messy, too. Yeah. Yeah. [00:41:01] Speaker C: I was about to say. I was about to say, I know a lot of trans women folks, and a lot of you would wind up dating Denise. [00:41:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:13] Speaker B: Ah, [00:41:15] Speaker A: Some of you. Yeah. Okay. No, I see it. I see the vision. Holy. Oh, my God. I can't even. This has been the best time. Holy hell. And we're almost at about an hour, and I feel like that. Like, that's a good way to start wrapping it up, though. Do we have any other Muppet related things that we want to talk about? Because I feel like we have. Us. We have proven that Muppets is grabs. Just. There's no. There's no getting around it at this point. [00:41:43] Speaker C: Well, just. Just some quick homework for. For wrestling Muppet fans, because we didn't go in the third direction, but that's okay because that's the least. That's the least interesting direction, which is Muppets crossing over with, like, real wrestling and real. [00:41:58] Speaker A: Yeah, look up. [00:42:00] Speaker C: Look up the Muppets on. On Raw. A lot of them appeared. That's where we learned that Beaker is Hornswoggles. Hornswoggles cousin Hornswoggle also appears in Muppets Most Wanted in the. In the Kermit Gulag of the meme you posted Kermit Gulag fame. So he's there. And if you really like suffering, please check out the movie Mupp from Space. [00:42:33] Speaker A: Hey, hey, hey. That's my. Like, one of my favorite Muppet movies. [00:42:39] Speaker C: Ella, Ella. [00:42:41] Speaker B: I was gonna defend it, but then I remember that I haven't seen it since I was 4, so. [00:42:45] Speaker C: Ella, Ella, I think. I think it might be time for me to find another podcast editor. [00:42:51] Speaker A: No, no. My affinity for Gonzo has cost me work again. [00:43:02] Speaker C: No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm kidding. What I mean by Suffering is if you want to see the late and loathed at the time, Hollywood Hogan. [00:43:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:15] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [00:43:16] Speaker A: Cut. [00:43:17] Speaker C: Cut a promo for, like, actual Real World wrestling while throwing Rizzo into a pipe. You. You can check out the movie Muppets from Space where that happens for no reason. And you can see one of the worst people to ever do it. [00:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah, seriously, quite. Oh, my God. But it does. That movie does have one of my favorite animal bits, which is when animal bites the people coming to work on the house. And Kermit's like, no, he doesn't mean. He's just musician. He's just, like, chasing, like. Yeah, I was. Oh, I've been there. That Been a music. I've been that musician and that drummer. That's fantastic. Oh, speaking of. Okay, wait, no. Before I let you go, I have one more important question. Ralph. Is based on Tom Waits or are they just playing the same character? [00:44:16] Speaker C: They're just playing the same character, 100%. [00:44:20] Speaker A: All right. [00:44:21] Speaker C: Rolf's wolf's one of the other, like, oldest Muppets. Like, Rolf predates the entire Muppet show as well, so I suspect he predates a lot of the Tom Waits Persona, [00:44:34] Speaker A: because I know that's, like 73ish is what I think when he. His is when I think closing time came out or. And all that. I can't remember. [00:44:44] Speaker C: Right. And. And Rolf the dog started. Rolf the dog started appearing as Jimmy Dean's sidekick on the Jimmy Dean Talk show in 1963. [00:44:57] Speaker A: Oh, okay. So Tom Waits is ripping him off. There's playing the same character. All right. Fantastic. Exquisite. Whoa. Holy. This is. That's, like, everything I could have wanted from this. Becca, thank you so much for coming on and giving us your time and. And sharing with us so much Muppet lore. We could do this forever. I feel like there's. Yeah, I could talk about Muppets forever, but if people want to find you. You plugged it earlier. Plug it again to talk about more Muppet stuff or any other things. Where can they find you? [00:45:30] Speaker C: You know, I should probably plug that. You can find me on Blue sky at Tall Girl Petunia. All. All one word. I don't know. I'm posting there. For better or for worse. I'm posting through it. But you can also find me for better on the P.O. here comes tomorrow, which is also at Bluesky, at Here Comes Tomorrow.net, where we're talking about the X Men and queerness and Grant Morrison. Or you can find me and my [email protected], which is on Bluesky at Toughpigs. And you can find a Prairie dawn companion on the Muppet fan podcast with tough pigs.com feed. Be, be ready. Season two is coming. I say this every time I'm on. And season two is taking me so long to script because I have so much to say about drag queens and how they do, do or don't relate to Gladys, a talking cow from 1973. So be ready. Be ready for that. [00:46:47] Speaker A: I'm so ready. [00:46:49] Speaker C: Holy bugs. [00:46:51] Speaker A: Are you ready? And if so, where can people find you in your readiness? [00:46:56] Speaker B: I'm stoked as you can find me looking at spongebob going like, I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready. On Blue Sky. [00:47:03] Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. You can find me on Blue sky as well. Garricktaylor.com you can find the show at it's all grabs B sky social. You can listen to my other show Wednesday night Fake Fights where we talk about aw, dynamite on all the pod places and YouTube. What's that other thing? Oh yeah. Call to action. Like subscribe, comment. Do all the things that let the robot overlords know that you like us. Oh, the one I can never ever forget because we adore them so much. [00:47:33] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Our theme song, the sex theme from everything is wrestling. Yet another mystery sign theater homage. [00:47:40] Speaker C: What a what a great name for your theme song. [00:47:44] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Well, we were gonna do the love theme but our friends at Radio Free Topeg already did that joke so they have the lovely for so I was okay the sex scene we're gonna then but it is by Socks. Socks is an amazing hyper pop artist local to Minneapolis US as well socks edm.bandcamp.com go get all of their Send her money. Listen to it. It's so good. It's just. [00:48:15] Speaker B: Just give Socks. Give Socks the world. [00:48:18] Speaker A: Give Socks the world. She deserve it. You also deserve the world. Everyone. Thank you for being here. Thank you for better understanding your world through pro wrestling. Find someone who needs money and give it to them. Punch Nazis. Something like that. I don't know. [00:48:35] Speaker B: And I wish y' all a very grappy Wednesday. [00:48:37] Speaker A: That's the one I was trying to remember. Your crappy Wednesday. There we go.