Cultural Appropriation (and also exchange) is Wrestling!

[00:00:01] Speaker A: You ever think about how everything might be wrestling but sometimes everything's also vampires, [00:00:09] Speaker B: you know, now that you mention it, bugs like. [00:00:12] Speaker A: Like, you know, just at the end of the day, something is sucking the blood out of something else or something. Is something sucking out of something else? Blood is usually involved. [00:00:22] Speaker B: It's the end of pride. I hope that there's been a lot of sucking for folks in the community. I haven't had, you know, that much luck. But I do have to leave the house. [00:00:33] Speaker A: So, yeah, my end of pride has sucked, but that's because I'm banned off Blue sky right now for saying some naughty things. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I was going to say we should probably address that. That bugs your God gasly. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Yeah. The allegations. Hi. Howdy. [00:00:50] Speaker B: Hey. [00:00:50] Speaker A: I'm Bugs Matrix, the artist formerly known on Bugs Matrix on Blue sky right now because I threatened to turn someone's dog green and a couple other things. [00:01:02] Speaker B: That's amazing. With magic and die, I'm guessing. [00:01:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just, it's. It's like, have I ever. Because, Ella, you've seen me post about how I want to turn people's dog screen right like that, just as a. [00:01:15] Speaker B: No, I fucking have not. [00:01:17] Speaker A: Okay, this is. [00:01:18] Speaker B: All right. This is a digression, but I need it. [00:01:22] Speaker A: It's a little bit of a thing. It's kind of an inside joke between me and a handful of friends. [00:01:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:28] Speaker A: But I was watching a TikTok that someone did, bitching about how much they hate generative AI, and one of the, like, suggestions that they were getting was just like a recoloring of a dog in a photo to turn it green. And the way that they were just like, what if I turned your dog green and I'm just. I'm like. That's all I like, like, like, what if I turned your dog green, but I. I dog greened too close to the sun. [00:01:56] Speaker B: Wait, so you're telling me and the listeners at home, we love you very much. That. That. That is why you're not on Blue sky right now, is because you threaten to turn to green someone's dog and [00:02:08] Speaker A: followed it up with another three. Three simple words that mods love to hear. [00:02:13] Speaker B: Oh, those three simple words. [00:02:15] Speaker A: Those three little words. [00:02:17] Speaker B: Oh, all right. That's making sense. All right. [00:02:20] Speaker C: Well, are they. It's giving wicked. Yeah. [00:02:25] Speaker A: Alphabet time. [00:02:28] Speaker B: Exactly. Well, I'm happy we got that out of the way, but, you know, sometimes wrestling is like vampirism. And here you have given me blood flow connoisseur, which is very much like wrestling. This is Jon Moxley the card based on the name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The. The like small breeze. The man bladed. Oh, gosh. But we have sacrifice a creature. Put plus one. Plus one counter on blood flow. [00:02:53] Speaker A: Something get bigger. Eat something get bigger. I will. I will eternally eat something at a moment's notice and get bigger and bigger and more powerful and all consuming. [00:03:02] Speaker B: So it's Yokozuna the K. I couldn't help myself. It's the Monday night blood in me. I can't help it recipe. But yeah, okay. No, this makes sense because it's kind of a continuation as we last time we talked about conquer die when we were back in Roman times and this. Yeah, I hate vampirism. And you know what reminds me of vampirism and wrestling and various other things? Cultural appropriation. Hit the button. I thought you're gonna say that reminded me of college and some really terrible choices I made. And welcome back to Everything is Wrestling. Because I only know one way to introduce a podcast. That's the way I've been doing it for years now. It is I, Ella Taylor. I almost said Garrick. Oh my God. I almost fake dead named myself. That's funny. That's wild. That's awesome. Oh, my God. You used a fake name that was never actually her name to begin with. Oh, God. Right? Is Ella Taylor in? Is Bugs Matrix? Say hi, Bugs. [00:04:30] Speaker A: Hi, Bugs. [00:04:31] Speaker B: You exist. And as you know from the cold open, the new news of her demise has been greatly over, over, over, overstated. [00:04:42] Speaker A: Hopefully, hopefully by the time you're hearing this, I will be back to saying nearly cancelable things. [00:04:48] Speaker B: Yes, on Internet, but God. God's favorite gas leak is alive and well in existing wherever you can listen to podcasts. So tell your friends and we are not going down to the lab this week. I did have have fun, you know, taking y' all on excursion. But we. We do have an expert. We brought an expert in for something that was pitched to us. This is wild. But we have actual honest to journalist weekend editor for the Times of San Diego, Arturo Garcia. Hello. Hi. [00:05:25] Speaker C: Thank you for having me. [00:05:27] Speaker B: Thank you for coming back, friend of the various pods that I've been making for too many years now. But you showed up with a topic. You're like, I like this everything is wrestling thing, but I also have something that is very much wrestling. How do we make this work? And I said, it's a gimmick, brother. What do you want to talk about? This. This show is. Is. Is Ella's expert friends come in and info dump while. While Bugs and her make Gay jokes like that. That's what this show is. Embrace it, everyone. I'm having fun and thus we're staying. But thank you for being here. Art, please tell the people any more you would like to about yourself and what you do and where to find you up front. [00:06:17] Speaker C: Well, I am on Blue sky as a boy named Art. If you read times of San Diego.com, by the time you hear this, you can search back and look up my recent chat with Tony Khan. [00:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll be out. This will be out in a couple of weeks from when we're recording. [00:06:34] Speaker C: So as we speak, I. I spoke to Tony, I spoke to TK yesterday in advance of the San Diego Dynamite show, or at the time, he insisted to me that Max Friedman would defend the men's world championship, saying, quote, it's an ironclad contract. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Damn right. [00:06:58] Speaker C: So as for. You know, you can. You can compare your notes with that on the other. On the other show. I. I guess. And we'll see how that age. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah, I was gonna say that. We'll see what that looks like in two weeks. How did. How did that turn out? Was. Was Tony Khan with us? I for one, hope that two weeks from now, we are still celebrating the beginning of a long, glorious reign of the chicken man. Briscoe for life. Hashtag femboys. So we. Oh, is that just bug saying yeah, like, yeah, figured. [00:07:41] Speaker A: Look, you said fanboys. It piqued my interest. [00:07:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say, like, huh. Hey, wait a second. So, Art, you. You came into my. You slid into my DMs with like, have you been paying attention to Americano gate? And I was like, Jesus Christ, what now? Basically, I was like, what. What did we do? Who did we bomb? Why do I have to be upset? What. What rights am I losing this week? What the are you talking about? So please, this. I. I'm opening this up as a platform for you to info dump while we make gay jokes. Let. Let us. Let us know everything you want to know about this. Like, what is Americano gate? [00:08:27] Speaker C: First off, just for the record, I respectfully slid into those dms. [00:08:32] Speaker B: I never said. I never said otherwise. Are. Jesus. [00:08:36] Speaker C: I mean, this is. This is wrestling Someone get the wrong idea. [00:08:40] Speaker B: But yeah. Yeah. [00:08:42] Speaker C: I do want to preface a lot of this by saying that if we look back at this in five years, I might be wrong. If I look back. If we look back at this within two years, I could be wrong. [00:08:52] Speaker B: Hell yeah. [00:08:54] Speaker C: It's a case that, you know, looking at blood flow connoisseur the vampire Trope was also used to fear Monger against migration, not just immigration. It was the idea that, you know, this person from another country is going to come in and steal all our women because they're charming and, you know, articulate and, you know, putting on airs. [00:09:15] Speaker B: They look like Andrade El Idolo. And Ella's in the corner, panting. [00:09:20] Speaker C: You know, if we're lucky. If we're lucky. Yeah. [00:09:24] Speaker B: But really, just racism. Yeah, it's. It's just racism. [00:09:28] Speaker C: At the very least, xenophobia. It can play out in a lot of directions and. And on the merits, you know, Americana Gate was my shorthand for if you still follow WWE 1. Bless your heart to. You know, it's. It's the story of El Grande Americano, which has gotten wrapped up in a lot of things. [00:09:47] Speaker B: And I remember I re a quick interjection I. Because I was talking to Bugs about this a little bit. I was like, I feel like I want to get this on the record. I stopped watching the Fed a long time ago. I just couldn't stomach it. And. And it also just stopped being good to me. You know, we could say whatever you want to say about that, but we met because I was doing a re watch of Monday Night Wars. I. You know, obviously, I'm a Fed girl from way back. That's why I call it the Fed Fed, not the E. You know, so, like it. You know, I. I have all these complicated feelings. That being said, when I first heard that there was a wrestler named El Grande Americano that was a Chad Gable in a Lucha Lucha mask, [00:10:38] Speaker C: I thought. [00:10:38] Speaker B: I thought it was. I thought it was sick. Like, I thought it was. Like, I thought, like, I had. I had to check my temperature. I thought it was having a fucking fever dream. [00:10:47] Speaker A: What do you mean? They named him after a Starbucks drink? Like, what the hell is going on? [00:10:54] Speaker B: But it was just the most. Like, that's the most racist and obvious Fed thing I have ever heard in my entire life. And. And then like, oh, it's real. Of course it's real. Of course it's real. And that's the last I thought about it. So I'm excited. I was very excited when you were like, there's more. I was like, there's more. [00:11:15] Speaker C: So let's pick up. So let's pick up the story there. Yeah, Chad Gable. And the angle originally was Chad had been losing. Losing to. To Mexican luchadores on WWE programming. And so his reasoning was, I'm going to go to Mexico, learn the style, and learn how to beat them. And in the process, what came out was El grand Americano, which it's not a defense, but it was designed to make you feel sick. That character was billed as being from the Gulf of America, for example. [00:11:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's. It's the old fed thing where they do something insanely racist and then go. But we're making fun of it. And it's like, yeah, but you're. [00:12:00] Speaker A: No, you're still doing it though. [00:12:03] Speaker B: You're just doing it though, you know, but it's kayfabe. Yeah, but you're just doing it though. It was like Billy and Chuck and like that. It's like we're not being homophobic. You know, we're just talking, you know, it's, it's fake. It's like. No, dude, you're just. Just say it. You know, like it's. Just say it. [00:12:22] Speaker C: And in, in their minds. And I'm gonna hazard a guess because last night I was watching part of a. A podcast or not even a podcast, but a long form interview conducted by Bruce Pritchard, the former brother love, longtime fed executive, as you. As you recall. [00:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah, believes certain people, Vince's like right hand stooge basically. [00:12:46] Speaker C: And they touched on the sergeant Slider. Sergeant Slaughter slides with a rack gimmick. [00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:53] Speaker C: And. And his explanation was it was timely. It was a chain for slaughter. No one anticipated there would be an actual war. But you see what I mean? They plug into. Into something newsworthy system themselves as much as they possibly can. Because it's heat. Brother or sister. Yeah, you know, and. And they let it play out. And so Gable took on this new Persona and everybody knew it was Chad gate. As this is happening, WWE. And this is, this is the spring of 2025. Now just before last year at WrestleMania they acquired the Mexican company AAA, which you and I have watched here before. [00:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah, we. Last time you're here, you showed me old, like old triple A and it was fucking amazing, Bugs. There was this fucking luchador stripper who came out in a Batman cowl. It was the sexiest fucking thing. [00:13:46] Speaker A: Will need links to this after the show. [00:13:49] Speaker B: You. I have this shit saved. Okay, sounds good. [00:13:52] Speaker A: I know what I'm watching tonight. [00:13:57] Speaker C: And you know, it was significant for a couple of reasons. It was. AAA is where Rey Mysterio first entered the national consciousness. They had a pay per view with WCW 1994 that was showed that Lucha was capable of drawing U S audiences. You know, it's where Conan first made a name for himself, which Conan wasn't in great shapes as A wrestler, sure. But a certified national draw in Mexico. Became a booker, became a, you know, talent manager. [00:14:30] Speaker B: He made his way in wrestling, for better or worse. Yes, he made his way in wrestling and now he's. Now he's a podcaster. [00:14:40] Speaker C: You know, the guy's gone through enough medical things that I, I don't want to pile on at this point. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Yeah, [00:14:47] Speaker C: I don't. I don't think life can deliver much worse sentences than working with Disco Inferno. Exactly. Another reason it's significant is because for putting on questionable quality of matches at that point. And you can look up reviews dating back to like 2018, when Conan started booking or consolidated booking up to 2024. Yeah, the product was not good, but it was still the biggest company in Mexico. It ran towns, it ran full loops. You know, you might be thinking CMML's hot. Yes, but they own their arenas. [00:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, they own their arenas and they have the. My understanding has always been cmml, like CMML is, is like the oldest pro wrestling in the world. Right. Like, that's that one. But because of that, they're almost. It's like if WCW never died, but just kind of stayed like plateaued and stayed there, whereas AAA kind of went. Became more popular in like the Fed of Mexico, where a CMML is like the number two, but they're not going anywhere sort of thing because of that. That thing. That's my understanding. Well, correct me if I'm wrong. Also, that's kind of. Oh, go ahead. [00:16:09] Speaker C: Here's how I would explain it. CMML CM ll is a hot ticket because Mexico in Mexico City is a popular tourist destination. So people come in to watch matches and they're just there to watch the wrestling. And they've been drawing great crowds for the past few years. It hasn't always been the case, the formation of aaa in the mid-90s. The closest explanation might in fact be an AEW in that a lot of talent jumped and new talent was brought in and the original AAA took advantage of a. You know, there was a void in the market and they more than filled it and they got television distribution and they got us shows, etc. Etc. Whatever the fault is with the product, they were still capable of drawing good crowds. And you know, they work with AW as recently as, I believe, 2023. [00:16:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna say they still, like, they still had some people. And then CMML came in because now I know CMML is like the big partnership with aw. And it's like, that's kind of makes that even funnier. [00:17:11] Speaker C: Oh, I don't want to step into cmll, so just. [00:17:14] Speaker B: Yeah, cmll. That I thought. That's what I thought. That's what I was saying. I. Sometimes I, I talk too fast, which is weird because I'm a podcaster. You think I would slow down. But yeah, I think I was just running them together. Cmo. [00:17:28] Speaker C: Yeah, it's easy, you know, but now we fought. We've seen aew, New Japan, cmll, you know, basically former informal collective. [00:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:41] Speaker C: WWE acquires aaa and Davis effectively established a front in Mexico. If you remember the British wrestling scene, the late 2010s WWE leaning on the scale ended up precipitating a lot of damage. [00:17:59] Speaker B: They, they basically they. They again it's like the, the continuation of last, the last episode art. I told folks at home about Black Saturday and about, and about Vince's taking of the territories because we, we were back in Roman times and I was like Caesar, you know, that's how this is wrestling. So the I. This is almost the continuation of that project. And, and that is kind of what happened to in, in the British scene as well. Shout out to the Waffley folks. Wrestle girlies gender inclusive. That like basically Vince went over there and like he's like they established was like NXTA Britain. And like they established like they, they, they, they established a front over there and, and doing so sucked dry all the talent out of the indie scenes and, and, and all of the people out of the indie scenes and, and, and just left it a. A husk and then, and then eventually broke it down and, and cut. Cut and ran was my understanding. [00:19:09] Speaker C: And it was a combination of that plus the pandemic. Plus speaking out. [00:19:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, which yeah, speaking out. Hit. Hit England hard, believe it or not. Turf island full of pedophiles. Strangest thing. [00:19:24] Speaker A: Would have never guessed. [00:19:25] Speaker B: Allegedly. Allegedly alleged. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, yeah. Who would have thought. Sorry. The view. The views expressed by the host of the show are not necessarily the views of his cat, but yeah, continue. So like, needless to say, that's kind of what I saw happening. And like this article you shared with us kind of confirmed that, that, that that's what they were doing was this continuation of that project of like now we need Mexico because Tony's over there playing with the luchas and now I want a lucha. And we got it to make sure that he doesn't get the luchas. So like they're like we're gonna go in and, and buy basically all, all but purchase aaa. So, so that all he can have is cml. And, and we'll say that, that you know, we, and it's the same playbook, it's the same thing. Buy up, get who you can that you want on everyone else. Hope that you have enough money and television space to cover up the fact that, that there's better like actual wrestling out there. Like that being said. Well, we'll get to Americano gate conclusion that match, but we'll get there. But anyways, yeah, wherever we were in this story, that, that's my understanding so far. [00:20:57] Speaker C: So WWE acquires aaa and within months of them taking control of production of the tele other television content, we begin to see homegrown AAA stars move down the card. Dominic Mysterio becomes the AAA mega champion. They're, you know, their world champion. And Dominic, you couldn't have made a better pick the, the air. Whether he wants to be or not of the Mysterio legacy. [00:21:24] Speaker B: No, he, oh God, Dom, A, a [00:21:27] Speaker C: binational bilingual star has already drawn great heat in the U.S. you know, but he, but he, but he comes to Mexico and because he's got a Mysterio name and the Guerrero attitude. [00:21:41] Speaker B: Yep. [00:21:41] Speaker C: However that might have happened. Yeah. [00:21:44] Speaker B: What's his dad. Yeah, it's because it's his father. [00:21:48] Speaker C: Yeah, he gets over, you know, immediately as well. But their top face of the time hastily turned heel. Psycho Clown, who had headlined multiple triple manias or centerpiece shows, moved down the card into a tag team without even sniffing the championship. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Wow. [00:22:05] Speaker A: Damn. [00:22:06] Speaker C: Wow. And along the line, Chad Gable gets injured. And so in canon, to throw everyone off the scent, a man we currently know is Ludwig Kaiser might remember him as Axel Dieter Marcel Barthel. However. [00:22:22] Speaker B: Yeah, however they were putting him. I thought that's who was under the mask. I was like, wait a second, that's Ludwig Kaiser from Imperium, the totally, totally not fascist stable of fascists. Totally not fascist with the ring General who is not named after a Nazi anymore. Okay, only half of them. Only half of them, yeah. Oh, God. [00:22:48] Speaker C: But you know, Ludwig Kaiser, a German national, adopts a mask. And then he begins to flip the character. Instead of, instead of portraying him as lording over Mexico, he's, he, he, he visibly embraces Lucha and the Mexican people. There's a video that gets out of him singing Cielito Lindo, a traditional Mexican ballad. Yeah, you know, and I, I've shared it, I, I, I've shared these photos with you, you know, but fan art starts popping up of him in front of the Mexican flag, saluting and sure that it's AI slope But some of it is legitimate and there's a lot of it going around. And Abel comes back and they come into conflict. And it leads to this angle from, I want to say, this past April, where. [00:23:41] Speaker B: So this has been going on for a while. This is like El Grande Americano came out a while ago, like the original. [00:23:49] Speaker C: And, you know, the benefit of an injury is you can prolong the sort of thing and not have it dominate a lot of time. [00:23:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Not. And not have it wear itself out. Which, again, the fact that this hasn't worn itself out to this point is insane. And so wrestling. It's so wrestling that. Yeah. But yeah, so, like, now he's coming back. He wants his spot back. And the dude who actually is like, pro Mexico, says you. That's so sick. [00:24:16] Speaker C: And you know it. It's a trope we've seen a lot in movies. The white man moves to a non English speaking country, falls in love with the culture, finds romantic love, and genuinely likes being there. If I were to tell that story blindly, would I be. Am I telling a story of Kenny Omega? Of Zack? [00:24:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:24:38] Speaker C: You know, and. And now we have it here. And like a lot of things in wrestling, it's a good story in the hands of the worst possible people. Imagine. [00:24:48] Speaker B: Yeah, well said, Art. Yeah. It's like you're a writer or something. No, because. Because that. That really is it. [00:24:58] Speaker C: And. [00:24:58] Speaker B: And it's the kind of thing where. That's why when we started talking about this was like, we call it like cultural appropriation. Is wrestling or something just to make it fit. But I was like, no, this is really about how wrestling. It's more. Wrestling is cultural exchange. When you do it well, like. Like, it has the ability. It's one of the things I love about wrestling so much is that it has the ability to facilitate cultural exchange in a way that can be problematic in all those ways and storylines that you just mentioned. But, like, in doing so, the. The fans learn more. You know what I mean? You know, I. I've learned more about Japan getting back into wrestling in the last few years than I did when I was taking courses on Japanese in high school. Like. Like it. Because, like, you're. I was never as immersed as I was because of something I. It's something I love. So, like, that's something I think is great about this. It seems like that's kind of what happened with this in my mind is like, we're gonna do this racist thing, but we're not. Ho, ho, ho. And then the Mexican fans Are like, no. Yeah. People in Mexico, we don't care if he's a German dude in a mask. Like, like, he respects Lucha. Yeah. [00:26:15] Speaker C: Lucha, you know, and he, you know, we. We see him dating the. The. The lovely AAA ring announcer. [00:26:23] Speaker A: We. [00:26:23] Speaker C: We see him befriend beloved queer icon peopleata. [00:26:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:29] Speaker C: In the service of a company associated with an administration that's dead set on squashing queer rights. [00:26:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Literally today to date. To date it. Yeah. A Supreme Court. The law will not set us free and the law will not keep us down. [00:26:45] Speaker A: I'm turning the suprem. [00:26:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:50] Speaker B: I'm looking at you, Supreme Court, and I'm turning you big and round. [00:26:53] Speaker A: I'm turning inflates you like a big balloon. [00:26:56] Speaker B: I'm inflating you like a big balloon. Alito, [00:27:02] Speaker C: you make a great point about, you know, cultural exchange. And, you know, wrestling does that. Art can do that. We've. We've seen it. We've seen. [00:27:10] Speaker B: We're seeing it right now with World Cup. [00:27:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:12] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:27:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's first off, you know, how many. How many countries have been put through the ringer trying to get people in. We saw the Iranian team being forced to train in Mexico and fly to [00:27:23] Speaker B: their matches in the US which is insane. Somali refugees not allowed in and have, like, having that. Like, that one, of course pisses me the off because, like, that's my neighbor's dick. Like, I'm sorry. Like, I will always stand for the Somali people. I left Pete, like, true again, quick aside, but, like, this is. This is Minneapolis. Okay. So I went to People's Pride on Saturday where we have to make our own pride because Twin Cities Pride, like the second biggest pride in the country, had literal NPD snipers on buildings in. In the historic Gay park in neighborhood where we used to go cruising, you know, like. And we're supposed to, like, applaud this. No, we had to make our own own. So, like, we had our own pride, which was amazing. Twin Cities. Yeah. People's pride. So hard. And then I'm riding back on. On e Scooter from People's Pride, and I run into this barrier and I'm like, what's going on? I'm, like, going down Lake street and all a sudden I'm like, oh, it's Somali Independence Day. And they have, hell, yeah, whole section and, like, just. I hit a whole separate party and I am never leaving this place. You're going to have to drag my ass out of here because, like, like, it's the greatest place on earth. [00:28:46] Speaker A: It really. I miss it. It really is. [00:28:49] Speaker B: We miss you, Bugs. Come on. [00:28:51] Speaker A: I'll be back. I'll be back. [00:28:54] Speaker B: Yeah, but like that, that, I'm sorry had to absolutely make that, that, that tangent because like I get so mad about the Somali aspect of it all because like I'm like literally my neighbors and they're the best. They're like the best people. You have no idea. So anyways, back to graphs. These people. But yeah, these people are doing all this to trans. Look, I did a transition back into the topic. These people are involved in this company, [00:29:29] Speaker C: You know, and, and Kaiser Grande is, is getting over [00:29:38] Speaker B: Kaiser Grande. That's amazing. [00:29:41] Speaker C: I mean it's tough to differentiate them, right? Yeah. And it, it culminates in one. Kaiser the man gets busted for Florida for allegedly roughing somebody up in an apartment complex. [00:29:55] Speaker B: Oh my God. Because wrestling. Because even literally. [00:29:59] Speaker C: Because Florida. [00:30:00] Speaker B: Yeah, well, because. No, because Florida also that it could be both the two are often a Venn diagram, that's a circle. [00:30:09] Speaker A: Unfortunately, Florida is definitely the most wrestling it really. [00:30:14] Speaker C: And this is like the week. This is like the week before a. A hastily put together special show showcasing the end of the, of the. Of the feud mask versus Mass Gable. And Kaiser, like the week before he gets busted, he doesn't do jail time at that time, goes back to Mexico, gets a public serenade in, you know, Monterrey where the show's being held. And I'm like, you can't pay that many marks. I'm sorry. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, like fuck. [00:30:45] Speaker C: And you know, we finally get to the match and at this point I, I want to get your thoughts on the match itself. [00:30:52] Speaker B: I mean, I think. But Bugs, I think is going to be able to sum up my thoughts pretty well. [00:30:58] Speaker A: Oh, I mean like, I'm the newest to the world of wrestling, so. Like. [00:31:04] Speaker B: Exactly. And you're. And you were like, yeah, okay, I [00:31:07] Speaker A: can, I can read the text that I sent you. [00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, wait a second. We have evidence of this because like, I have a long answer, but the short answer, Bugs said it. I was like, [00:31:19] Speaker A: yeah. So I wrap. Watching it and I'm like, the fun thing about still being new to wrestling is that I can earnestly say that that was one of the best matches we've ever seen and have no idea if it was actually mid. But that fucked insane gimmick aside, which we're not gonna put aside the insane gimmick because the gimmick's insane and. Jesus Christ. What the fuck? [00:31:43] Speaker B: Yeah, like the whole. What the fuck of it. [00:31:45] Speaker A: But itself, like the graphs grabbed. I, I think I, I felt that the choreo was incredible. The, just the durationally. I was like, damn, these guys have been beating the. Out of each other for a second. [00:32:00] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it went long. It was a barn burner. [00:32:03] Speaker A: The, the tag team, a little minisode in the middle of it with like their, their guys throwing down, fighting. [00:32:12] Speaker B: Yeah. The, the stables fighting each other for a little bit to give the guys some time to breathe. You need that in a 45 minute match, you know what I mean? [00:32:20] Speaker A: Aerial drop. That was cool as hell. [00:32:23] Speaker B: Luchas, don't fuck around with the high flying like, like the big splashes like that. Holy. But overall, how I think my response to that was like, you know, it's the best Fed match I've seen in a long time time. Because it's still. It was still very much felt like a federation match, but it was a really good one. And I really put it down to the fact that those can work like. And I've always been a fan of Chad Gable. I've never gotten to see enough of Luke. But this is the most I've seen of Ludwig. Kaiser is like a singles guy because he was. He was always stuck in the back half of the totally not fascist stable. The totally not. Not. Not making you think anything about, you know, certain Axis powers. Okay. [00:33:17] Speaker A: Don't drag Italy into this. [00:33:21] Speaker B: The, the, the. The other member of the stable is Italian. [00:33:25] Speaker A: God damn it. [00:33:29] Speaker B: You thought you were so good. [00:33:31] Speaker A: I thought I had a good one. [00:33:33] Speaker B: I got you. This is, this is my special interest. [00:33:39] Speaker C: But. [00:33:40] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it was exactly that. I thought it was a really fan. Tastic match for, for the Fed. I thought it was. It was brought up to another level entirely by the most on fire crowd I think I have seen in nuts. That's. That's wrestling. Like, like. All right, well, how they say they chanted instead of this is wrestling. It was. Yeah, yeah. Yes, thank you, thank you. I was like, I'm picking up on the chance. I was like, I know what that means. That's a. This is wrestling chant in Spanish. Hell yeah. Again, cultural exchange. But no, the, the crowd was on one just fucking. The, the heat doesn't explain it. Like nuclear heat. Sure. And then of course, they call back to all the spots. They bring back the blind comedian that he harassed that like, got him like, helped get him to that nuclear heat. Like, I remember you saying like that this is the point where you really went like bug, you know, because he fucked with this guy, they bring him back and he gets some hits in, you know, like, and like they're hitting all the spots and it's like, this is the blow off. This is amazing. This is in fact wrestling. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, it felt like it, it felt like a narrative conclusion. Like, like I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, this is, you're doing, you're, this is the end of a trilogy type, like. [00:35:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's like, yeah, the end of a trilogy. I would just have the exact same thought. And because it's wrestling. We're the air. We're going to end up with, with el Grande Americano 7 where Matt Lillard's back. [00:35:32] Speaker A: You know what? No, no, no, no. I'll allow that. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Yeah, dude, I love me some Maddie Willard. Come on the pod. Call me anyways, please. I'm getting woozy here. I didn't just re. Watch all those movies. Yeah, I know. It was real bad. I still attest that the trilogy is good, but again, that's a different podcast. But that's what made me think of it. No, it felt like the conclusion of a trilogy. It was really, it was the kind of thing where it's like, that's everything I love about wrestling. It sucks that the Fed did it and that they basically stumbled into it tripping over their racist dicks and, and, and falling into a crowd going, yeah, no, we'll with this. And like the fan base, like, it's, it's again, like, I think of Brian Danielson, I think of Kofi Mania. I think of all these things. We're like, where we're like, no, we're, we're trying to do a, a this guy. We're trying to make fun of the public vegan and the black guy. And you guys keep picking them up as heroes. What the wrong with you? It's like your people or something. [00:36:47] Speaker C: Like, Jesus. [00:36:48] Speaker A: It's like, sorry, you cast the perfect guy for this. [00:36:52] Speaker B: It's like the serfs are revolting or something. What the. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Are they out of touch? No, it's the fans. [00:36:59] Speaker B: No, no. Yeah. No, it's the fans who are wrong. Exact. And it's that over and over. And I just, I, I, I loved the match. I loved all the, the bits of storytelling. It was everything it should have been. They did so good as two white dudes playing the heat of, of the mask versus Mask and, and playing the crowd because, like, that's a, you know, that's an, you know, not. I don't know how many of our list. I'm sure most of our listeners are Wrestling fans. But, like, that's a huge thing. [00:37:34] Speaker A: Thing. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Like the MA going for the mask. Like, it's a no dq. Because if it wasn't. If it wasn't no dq, you would get disqualified just for going for the mask. Like, it's like, not necess. Or is that. Or is that a CMLL rule? [00:37:48] Speaker C: No, the. The. [00:37:51] Speaker B: Because that's my understanding, the overall rule [00:37:54] Speaker C: is you get disqualified for removing the mask. [00:37:57] Speaker B: Okay. [00:37:58] Speaker C: Not for tearing it, not for going [00:38:00] Speaker B: for it, but for removing it. Okay, all right. That's my misunderstanding. Oh, I'm so happy you're here. [00:38:06] Speaker C: No, and I mean. Aw. Misstated the rule yesterday to get Jon Moxley heat. [00:38:12] Speaker B: Okay. All right. So there you go. So I blame them and it worked. And. And like, holy. For. That's a different show. Okay. I gotta do that one tomorrow. I have so many things to say about Forbidden Door Wow. Houses. But yeah, no, that. It was. It was nuts. It was nuts. The. The match was amazing. Everyone hit their. I saw some of those that. The. That one Chaos theory that. That Gable hit. It's just like, God, just drop them on your, like, head. Like, that's Kenny. There was Kenny Omega levels of Drop me on my dome here. Like, like, like, like this was. It was nuts. It was nuts. There was like. There was a couple of those bumps where I was like, that's like Omega and Tokyo Dome like, it. If I die, I die. [00:39:03] Speaker A: Kind of. [00:39:03] Speaker B: Kind of bumps. [00:39:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:07] Speaker B: But overall, that was my thought. Like, that was everything it needed to be. It was. It was exactly how you close out that story. And they did a great job. And it's. It sucks that it's them that got it. [00:39:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:39:21] Speaker B: Basically because. Wow. And. And whether he assaulted the guy or not, you can always spend so much time working for the Fed before you end up piece of. Both those can work. Like, both those guys put in an amazing match and had like a match of their lives. Like, that was like, yeah, that's a. That's a career match for both those guys if there's no world in which it isn't. So, like, you know, I don't love the Fed, but I'm. I'm gonna give credit where credit's due, you know? [00:39:53] Speaker C: So I want to go back on the career part of that a little bit later. When I watched it, I had two thoughts. One, the layout of the match was very similar to Cody Rhodes and Roman reigns at Mania 40. [00:40:08] Speaker B: I had that feel too. [00:40:09] Speaker C: So in that. In that regard, it's a very good WWE main event match. [00:40:17] Speaker B: So you picked up on that too. That. Because that. That's what I mean by, like, it was great for a Fed match because that it had the formula, it had the Fed mistake. I could still read it for what [00:40:26] Speaker C: it was as a. As a Lucha match. I think it was mid. [00:40:31] Speaker B: Okay, there you go. All right. [00:40:33] Speaker C: And I will send you a link to what I think the consensus. Best Masters of math match ever. December 2000. Atlantis and Vienna III. A packed arena. Mexico ready to ride and die. Or for Vienna especially, only 20, I think it was. The whole thing took less than half an hour. [00:40:55] Speaker A: Okay. [00:40:56] Speaker C: And the other. [00:40:57] Speaker B: Add that to a list of things that Bugs is watching tonight. [00:41:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:02] Speaker C: The other thing that. That hit me, if it had been a submission finish, that would have carried it for me, I think. [00:41:09] Speaker A: Okay. [00:41:12] Speaker C: And then. And even Melter picked up on this. The fact that Abel. And the fact that they went through after the match, the ceremony where Gable Americano gives his name, quote, unquote, as, you know, Chad Gable. That. Chad Bax, I think it is. That is sh. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:41:29] Speaker C: You know, with the family there. And even the little. The little endorsement speech that is directly lifted from good Lucha tradition. [00:41:38] Speaker B: And that part. [00:41:39] Speaker C: Very much surprised. I expected the end to be able. Stomping off in a huff. [00:41:45] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that's. That's kind of what. That was. The other thing that I thought of, too. I. I didn't even think since why I love you artists. I didn't even think of the post matches. The match. I was just talking about the graphs. But the post match, yeah, that was like, oh, this is like, this is Lucha. Like, this is Lucha. This is a thing that they do in Lucha. And I was also. I was kind of amazed that that they. That they actually did that. And the whole thing, it also reminds me. It's something they do a lot in Japan, too. It reminded me of, like, you know, Terry Funk addressing the crowd in his retirement, all bloody and being like, okay, no, I'm going to, like, give y' all the. The closure. Like, the further emotional closure. It's like, apologize. Like, you straight up apologize, like, okay, I was a dick. You know, like. But no, that's cool to know that. That. That's Lucha tradition, because it felt very. Not fed, if. Exactly. So it felt like not something they would do. So I. That the overall presentation was very weird. It was the first Fed AAA show I. I had seen. I gotta say. What was it? God's help me. Was it Michael and JBL on. On commentary? No. [00:43:09] Speaker C: Corey Graves Bradshaw and I think so. [00:43:13] Speaker B: It Was jbl. [00:43:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:15] Speaker B: Okay. It was Corey Graves doing his best. Michael. Michael. What's his nuts? Impression? Michael Cole. [00:43:21] Speaker C: You know what? I'll give Graves credit. He is much better in the play by play role than I would have anticipated. [00:43:28] Speaker B: Yeah. No, no. And I've to the point where I straight up thought that was Michael Cole for a second. Jbl. Jesus Christ. Can we just. I redacted, redacted, redacted, redacted like that guy to hell that dude to forever to hell. Like the fact like, like he's like just deport them all. And you could. I could. He said deport them all. And I could feel Corey Graves look at him like, you know we're in Mexico right now. You racist piece of. Right. And that's coming from me. A racist piece of like that's allegedly, allegedly like, like that. That's, that's wild stuff. But no, this was all just like thank you for bringing this to my attention, Art. Because like all of this was mind blowing to me. I had no idea that that fever dream of a racist joke like became like watch it. Like I'll put the link in the, the, in the chat. If you have an hour, go watch it folks. Like you'll see a crowd lose their for like an hour straight. I, I don't think I've seen a regular Fed match have that kind of level of heat in, in like years. [00:44:48] Speaker C: And now since that match, Chad Gable asked. Chad Gable had returned to raw. He's apologized. Ray Phoenix, he's apologized to a former Steel Mages. And it's obvious that this, the upshot of this is that this is going to be used to possibly give him the sustained push that people have been wanting for him for years. You know, and good. [00:45:09] Speaker B: He's an amazing wrestler. Like when I was still watching the Fed, I. I was a Gable fan for his in ring stuff. He was great. [00:45:16] Speaker C: On the flip side and this is where I think that Voices of Wrestling article we've been talking about comes in. You know the one El Grande Americano left is being positioned for a triple A world championship match. The fall probably. He's being set up in an angle against Return of Los Perros Del Mar. The rough translation is the Dogs of War. The most successful bullet club sl nwo, however you want to define it. Major heel stable of the past. [00:45:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's for folks at home who might know aew, but not this. It's why the Dogs are the dogs. The, the tag team in AW right now because they were War Dogs. Weren't they? In Japan, I'm pretty sure. [00:46:05] Speaker C: Which is itself the. Another iteration of just Bullet Club. Yeah. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Which is like gone now. [00:46:12] Speaker C: Yeah. But. And that's. I mean, we can do a whole show on that if you want, but. [00:46:17] Speaker B: Oh, but we'll have you back. Well, oh, someday. Someday we should. Someday we should just sit bugs down and explain Bullet Club. Like, oh my God, I'm super down. [00:46:29] Speaker C: Los Pero del Mal, founded by the late Pero Guayo Jr. In CMLL or through that promotion, ventured into AAA. Very much the, you know, the anti hero heat to the point where they actually became their own independent promotion. You know, the nephew. And Angel Garza, the nephew of one of the original members, is part of this new iteration. And. But now they're being positioned against Kaiser Americano. What my concern is for Kaiser, it's. It's kind of a devil's bargain. Because sure, he is over like Rover right now. [00:47:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:10] Speaker C: But he can't take this gimmick elsewhere. [00:47:13] Speaker B: Nope. It's only here. And if he loses the mask, it. No one gives a shit. [00:47:17] Speaker C: I mean, if he loses the. If he loses the job by. For whatever reason, WWE will probably at [00:47:25] Speaker B: least attempt to just put the gimmick on someone else. [00:47:28] Speaker C: And they've already done it. There's a new La Parka in AAA right now. [00:47:32] Speaker B: Off. Seriously? [00:47:34] Speaker C: Yep. [00:47:35] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I. Oh, man. Folks, go check out 90s La Parka on YouTube. [00:47:41] Speaker C: La Parka Original. The original La Parka now wrestles as La park, one of the original stars of the first aaa. The second one. And. And AAA did this as well. They. They laa. One left. A second person came in and became la. And it took years of pushing him, but he, you know, he got over. [00:48:03] Speaker B: And again, other places do that too. Anywhere you got a masked wrestler, there's a chance that happen. Like Japan had what, four or five Tiger masks. [00:48:11] Speaker C: Yeah. And. And at least. But there it's formalized. Like it's understood that satoru sayama, that Mr. Hermish M outgrew that Persona and you know, and their career, you know, and it becomes part of their history. [00:48:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's like handed down. Like it's a. It's a. It's a great respect to be like the new Tiger Mask. [00:48:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's not across the board. I mean, there's only ever. There's only ever going to be one Thunder Liger, for example. [00:48:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But there's only one Ultimo, Ultimo Dragon. And I saw him beat a lifeguard at the Mall of America. And complained to the crowd that he was wet. Oh, God, I love wrestling. That was a great time. He threatened ever. He threatened everyone with an acai moonsault. And I was like, don't do it, bro. Don't, don't. Like. I know it's named after you, but that, that you're gonna die. You're so old, dude. Don't do it. [00:49:14] Speaker C: AAA has a new La Parka, and worse than that, they've attached the accomplishments of the predecessor to him. [00:49:20] Speaker B: That's some whole Doctor who. [00:49:23] Speaker C: Damn it. [00:49:25] Speaker A: No, you can't. I don't care for that. [00:49:28] Speaker B: I don't like that at all. No, no, no, no. That's gross. That's, that's, that's comic books. That's not wrestling. The two should blend. But never, you know, don't get confused here because then you're, you're taking away the accomplishments from the, from the actual act athlete and you're forgetting that these are actually people. [00:49:51] Speaker A: To get back to that article again, I mean, the whole, the post biological performer section in that is, that's, that's another way that you can just totally depersonalize and dehumanize like something that's just semi anonymous gimmick, like what the. [00:50:07] Speaker C: You know, and honestly. Well, good timing there. I was actually about to read a one short paragraph. Just for the sake of the reader here or the listener. Here's from the article. The implication is worth stating plainly. The Superstar ip, the marketable character, the entrance music, the moveset, the catchphrase, the avatar in WWE 2K. The foil stamp figure on the shelf no longer requires the biological wrestler to keep generating revenue. If a wrestler attempts to leverage their popularity for a higher contract, the company has the legal mechanism to continue selling the character without them. If a character suffers a career ending injury, the character survives the injury. If a wrestler dies, the character does not have to, you know, Ludwig Kaiser's in good health. [00:50:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:50] Speaker C: But at this point, his, at this point, he's got to hang on to this for as long as he possibly can because. [00:50:57] Speaker B: Yeah, because like, it's not his. He's just renting it. And this is again the continuation of Vince's project. This is what he always wanted. And you know, everyone can say that it was always, you know, it was, you know, never. They were never serious about it, but that's horseshit. Vince really wanted to replace Diesel and Razor Ramon with Kane and some mother schmuck. Like, like that's what happened is like he tried to take these gimmicks that he owned the rights to. He had. That's why he. That's why no one in the WWE wrestles under their real name if he can help it, because he doesn't own their real name, he doesn't own their indie name. So he has to give them a random NXT name generator that, that, that pumps something out for them with extra syllables or extra vowels. I mean. Well, both. And. And they are stuck to that because he can put a TM on that, make money for. On that forever. They. They've been doing this for decades. It's just now it's like this, you know, this article, it's like, it's the next step and it's solidified and it's. It's gross. It's so gross. [00:52:14] Speaker C: I would argue in this case it's even worse because. Yeah, you know, C.J. parker and NXT didn't get over. He leans. Juice Robinson does. [00:52:24] Speaker B: Yep. [00:52:25] Speaker C: Here. This is a specific mask. This is a specific iconography with this character now that's been plastered all over Instagram and Tick Tock and what have you. [00:52:35] Speaker B: AI Slop and legitimate fan art. Yeah. [00:52:39] Speaker C: You know, if. And if Kaiser loses the mask, you know, the way I see it, he could probably still wrestle in Mexico and people would still fondly remember him. [00:52:51] Speaker A: The point, like, he could be kind of a legacy guy, but possibly. [00:52:55] Speaker C: Yeah. And. But I mean, it would. He would have to really dedicate. You have to relocate, I think full time to make it work. [00:53:03] Speaker B: No, you would. Yeah, yeah. You know, you would have to. He would have to relocate. He would have to like, learn more Lucha. Like, you know, like, you know, I mean, I'm sure. I saw it looked like he already did some, you know, like. But no, he would have to, like, change. It's like a career. It's like he got like. What's the word I'm looking for? Transferred to like a different office. You know what I mean? It's like you just. You gotta up and move and like change your entire career path because you got stuck with this. And now once it's gone, all you can do, all your heat's over here. So, like, he's got to try to just re remake himself there because that's where all of his heat is, you know? Well, yeah, people. No, no, I was gonna say, because people do it in America all the time. [00:53:50] Speaker A: So. [00:53:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it can happen. [00:53:51] Speaker C: Well beyond that, I mean, look at Vampiro, who we, you know, we watched him. Vampiro, when he first got booked in EMLL at that point, and I think he would agree with this statement. You know, he was a, a good looking Canadian knucklehead, right? [00:54:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:54:07] Speaker C: But in the years since he moved to Mexico, he has a native level understanding of the language. Now he can host his own podcast with Spence. [00:54:16] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, which is wild because it's, it's Vampiro from like late 2000s WCW. It's that Vampiro. That's some wild folks who know what I'm talking about. [00:54:30] Speaker C: And again, Kenny, Kenny Omega moved whole hog to Japan and immersed himself. [00:54:35] Speaker B: He made it his life. Yeah, yeah. [00:54:37] Speaker C: I, I watched a clip of the first promo in New Japan where he spoke Japanese. [00:54:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:43] Speaker C: And the crowd was like, oh, oh, you like. He really, you know, he, he really did work. Zack Saber relocated to Japan full time and he's like the most English man alive. [00:54:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that's like Shogun. Yeah. Like straight up, just, he's the most English man, I think of that show. The most English dude you can think of. [00:55:07] Speaker C: More recently, Chris Brooks, who had a name in the British Independence in Progress. [00:55:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:12] Speaker C: Just before progress imploded, he moved to Japan and, and now, you know, he's a champion in ddt. He worked Tokyo Dome this past January against El Fantasma. It can be done. It, it, it's just going to be like, that's why I said it's the beginning. I may be wrong within five years, but it's going to take this long to figure out how all the dominoes fall. [00:55:32] Speaker B: And in the meantime, Vince McMahon makes money and like the blood flow connoisseur. I eat, I get bigger. I eat, I get bigger, I get bigger. Like, it's like, yeah, that's it. So like, thank you, Art. I, I, I, I think we should, that's a good place to wrap it up. Unless you had anything else quickly to add. I think that's a sweet little nugget there. Yeah. Do you have anything else to say on it before we, we head out quickly? [00:56:03] Speaker C: No, I think it's a good place to wrap. [00:56:07] Speaker B: That's smart, but no, like, holy bugs. Do you have anything else to say about Americano gate and how Vince continues to ruin wrestling from beyond the grave? [00:56:17] Speaker A: So I have one good thing to say about it, is now I really want to start exploring Lucha because this, if this is the, if this is a mid version of a match, like [00:56:30] Speaker B: Lucha harder than most things, [00:56:34] Speaker A: if this is a mid thing, I'm, I'm excited [00:56:37] Speaker B: to see some good Lucha's. Unfucking real Lucha is unreal. [00:56:42] Speaker C: It is also very sleazy in Its own, right? Oh, oh, oh. [00:56:46] Speaker A: I. I wasn't thinking that I was gonna get it. [00:56:50] Speaker B: No, there is no escape. There is no escape. It's. It's. It's monsters all the way down. [00:56:54] Speaker A: Yeah, but sometimes the monsters can put on a good show. [00:56:58] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Holy shit. Art again. Tell people where to find you if you want them to find you. Where to read your things, things of that nature. [00:57:11] Speaker C: Blue sky is probably my. Where I put in the most social media time you can find my written work for now at times with san diego.com. [00:57:20] Speaker B: hell yes. Check out that TK interview. It's good stuff. And yeah, thank you again for bringing this to my attention because I would have ignored it and was wild. Thank you everyone for listening. I got. Oh, I gotta remember to do this because I keep forgetting. Thank you to Socks for our fucking intro. Outro music. Holy shit. Socks. Socks is like my everything right now, and I can't believe it's my friend. So check out socks edm.bandcamp.com. yeah, and go give them money and just get all of it. She makes great music. So that. And what else? Check out Wednesday night. Fake Fights. This other show, Here Comes Tomorrow is coming back with a new season. That's a show I edit, though not really affiliated with outside of edit. And they're my friends and I adore them and they make good stuff. Bugs, you got anything to plug by [00:58:26] Speaker A: the time this drops? No, I was gonna say come. If you're in Baltimore, I'll be hanging around doing a very nerdy magic thing in a couple weeks, but I think this will have dropped after that, right? [00:58:38] Speaker B: Either after that or. Right. It might be right before. This might come out literally. Right. [00:58:43] Speaker A: If this comes out right before. Hey, yeah. If you're in Baltimore, go to Papa Geddon. I will jam a game with you if you tell me that this is how he found out. [00:58:53] Speaker B: Hell yes. I don't know if anyone will take y' all up on that, but do it. Go hang out with Bugs. Kick their ass for me, Cardboard. Because I don't know how. [00:59:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll be on Grixis Affinity. It's very easy to beat a. [00:59:09] Speaker B: And until next time, we don't have a sign off phrase by.